{"id":2713,"date":"2026-06-18T14:25:39","date_gmt":"2026-06-18T14:25:39","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/?p=2713"},"modified":"2026-07-13T09:16:16","modified_gmt":"2026-07-13T09:16:16","slug":"how-to-win-at-paid-advertising-in-the-ai-era-keith-putnam-delaney-primer-ceo","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/2026\/06\/18\/how-to-win-at-paid-advertising-in-the-ai-era-keith-putnam-delaney-primer-ceo\/","title":{"rendered":"How to Win at Paid Advertising in the AI Era | Keith Putnam-Delaney, Primer CEO"},"content":{"rendered":"<div style=\"height:25px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n<p style=\"text-align: center\"><em><strong>Listen on <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw\">YouTube<\/a> \/\/ <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/in\/podcast\/ads-in-chatgpt-are-coming-what-b2b-marketers-should\/id1369291464?i=1000773116387\">Apple<\/a> \/\/ <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/2gP8mo3Hjw9JJ5peRxD7yw?si=QB9T4aO3SSaJKSb0OY8CFQ\">Spotify<\/a><\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<div>\n<hr \/>\n<\/div>\n<h2>Who we sat down with<\/h2>\n<p>Paid advertising is changing in the AI era.<\/p>\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/keithputnamdelaney\/\">Keith Putnam-Delaney<\/a><\/strong><span data-color=\"rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)\">\u00a0(Co-Founder &amp; CEO of\u00a0<\/span><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/sayprimer\/\">Primer<\/a><\/strong><span data-color=\"rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)\">) joins GTMnow to break down the B2B paid squeeze, the B2C-for-B2B unlock, and his 3 contrarian rules for paid in 2026. He has the data on what\u2019s actually working, and it\u2019s not where you might assume.<\/span><\/p>\n<h2>Discussed in this episode<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>Why LinkedIn &amp; Google search are hitting a ceiling (and what to do instead<\/li>\n<li>How to get 80% match rates on Meta and 70% on Reddit for B2B audiences<\/li>\n<li>The only moat competitors can\u2019t copy: your targeting<\/li>\n<li>Why you need to feed CRM conversion data back to ad platforms<\/li>\n<li>Holdout groups, attribution, and what actually proves paid ROI<\/li>\n<li>The truth about ads in LLMs (ChatGPT, Perplexity, Grok)<\/li>\n<li>B2B influencer marketing: the most undervalued tactic right now<\/li>\n<li>Founder lessons from 6 years and 3 pivots building Primer<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div>\n<hr \/>\n<\/div>\n<h2>Episode highlights<\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=0\">0:00<\/a> \u2013 The paid advertising crisis no one\u2019s talking about<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=160\">2:40<\/a> \u2013 AI\u2019s real impact on ad costs<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=246\">4:06<\/a> \u2013 Google Search &amp; AI Overviews: what still works<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=304\">5:04<\/a> \u2013 LinkedIn CPMs: $20 to $800 in 18 months<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=399\">6:39<\/a> \u2013 Why B2B brands need to be on Meta, Reddit &amp; Instagram<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=421\">7:01<\/a> \u2013 What Primer does (80% match rates explained)<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=569\">9:29<\/a> \u2013 The device fragmentation problem &amp; attribution<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=676\">11:16<\/a> \u2013 Holdout groups: the statistically proven approach<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=810\">13:30<\/a> \u2013 Which channel to start with (and minimum spend)<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=1338\">22:18<\/a> \u2013 Paid ad creative: feed the algorithm with variants<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=1514\">25:14<\/a> \u2013 B2B influencer marketing &amp; thought leadership ads<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=1859\">30:59<\/a> \u2013 Why you MUST push CRM data back into ad platforms<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=2011\">33:31<\/a> \u2013 Ads in ChatGPT &amp; LLMs: what\u2019s coming<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OUGUiQN6MCw?t=2153\">35:53<\/a> \u2013 Founder lessons, mental health &amp; iteration<\/p>\n<div>\n<hr \/>\n<\/div>\n<h2>Key takeaways<\/h2>\n<p><strong>1. AI didn\u2019t create new channels, it just made existing ones more expensive<br \/><\/strong>AI flooded search, email, and social with more content, creating a supply\/demand imbalance that\u2019s driving up CPMs across the board. LinkedIn went from $20 to $800 CPM in 18 months. The channels are the same, they\u2019re just getting pricier and more crowded.<\/p>\n<p><strong>2. Your targeting is the only moat competitors can\u2019t copy<br \/><\/strong>They can reverse-engineer your creative, your messaging, your channels. But they can\u2019t see your targeting. Building a precise, high-match-rate audience strategy like 80% on Meta and 70% on Reddit is your most defensible paid advantage.<\/p>\n<p><strong>3. Go where your competitors aren\u2019t, Reddit, Meta, and Instagram are wide open for B2B<br \/><\/strong>Most B2B brands are still stuck on LinkedIn and Google. But your buyers are humans scrolling Instagram at night. Brands that crack Meta and Reddit now are getting cheaper inventory and less competition before everyone else catches on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>4. If you\u2019re not pushing CRM data back into ad platforms, you\u2019re optimizing for the wrong thing<br \/><\/strong>Ad algorithms optimize for whatever signal you feed them. If you only give them form fills, they\u2019ll chase form fills including junk leads. Closing the loop with actual pipeline and revenue data is what gets the algorithm working for you, not against you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>5. Failure is a feature, not a bug, iteration is the only path<br \/><\/strong>Primer went through multiple pivots, near-death moments, and nine months in the dark rebuilding. Keith\u2019s core belief: failure is a side effect of iteration, and you can\u2019t reach the best outcome without it. The same logic applies to paid ads, test, fail fast, feed the data back in, and keep going.<\/p>\n<div>\n<hr \/>\n<\/div>\n<h3>Follow Keith Putnam-Delaney<\/h3>\n<ul>\n<li>LinkedIn: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/sivasrajamani\">https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/sivasrajamani<\/a><\/li>\n<li>X (Twitter): <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/kcpdelaney\">https:\/\/x.com\/kcpdelaney<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Primer\u2019s LinkedIn: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/sayprimer\">https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/sayprimer<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Primer\u2019s website: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sayprimer.com\/\">https:\/\/www.sayprimer.com<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div>\n<hr \/>\n<\/div>\n<h3>Follow Sophie Buonassisi (Host)<\/h3>\n<ul>\n<li>LinkedIn: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/sophiebuonassisi\/\">https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/sophiebuonassisi<\/a><\/li>\n<li>X (Twitter): <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/sophiebuona\">https:\/\/x.com\/sophiebuona<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Newsletter:<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div class=\"embedded-publication-wrap\" data-component-name=\"EmbeddedPublicationToDOMWithSubscribe\">\n<div class=\"embedded-publication show-subscribe\" style=\"text-align: center\"><a class=\"embedded-publication-link-part\" href=\"https:\/\/thegtmnewsletter.substack.com\/?utm_source=substack&amp;utm_campaign=publication_embed&amp;utm_medium=web\"><span class=\"embedded-publication-name\">The GTMnow Newsletter (by GTMfund) <\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"embedded-publication-hero-text\">GTMnow merges go-to-market strategy, venture capital and media.<br \/>Build, scale and invest with the best minds in tech.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center\">The media brand of VC firm, GTMfund \u2013 sharing the how and who behind company growth.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<hr \/>\n<\/div>\n<h3>Follow GTMnow<\/h3>\n<ul>\n<li>LinkedIn: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/gtmnow\/\">https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/gtmnow<\/a><\/li>\n<li>X \/ Twitter: <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/GTMnow_\">https:\/\/x.com\/GTMnow_<\/a><\/li>\n<li>YouTube: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@GTM_now\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@GTM_now<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Instagram: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/gtmnow_\">https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/gtmnow_<\/a><\/li>\n<li>TikTok: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.tiktok.com\/@gtmnow_\">https:\/\/www.tiktok.com\/@gtmnow_<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div>\n<hr \/>\n<\/div>\n<h3>The GTMnow Podcast \u2013 subscribe to support<\/h3>\n<p>It would mean the world to us if you subscribe to the show on your platform of choice. This helps support our growth, which in turn helps us continuously bring on bigger guests and deliver the content that you want to hear most.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li class=\"button-wrapper\" data-component-name=\"ButtonCreateButton\"><a class=\"button primary button-wrapper\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@GTM_now\">Subscribe on YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li class=\"button-wrapper\" data-component-name=\"ButtonCreateButton\"><a class=\"button primary button-wrapper\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/ca\/podcast\/the-gtmnow-podcast\/id1369291464\">Subscribe on Apple<\/a><\/li>\n<li class=\"button-wrapper\" data-component-name=\"ButtonCreateButton\"><a class=\"button primary button-wrapper\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/2SA1dgQ2Yc5t4V5GcBLnD2\">Subscribe on Spotify<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div>\n<hr \/>\n<\/div>\n<p><em>The GTMnow Podcast shares how the best in tech build, scale and invest.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>Visit <a href=\"https:\/\/gtmnow.com\/\">gtmnow.com<\/a> for more episodes, The GTMnow Newsletter editions, and other content.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>GTMnow is run by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.gtmfund.com\/\">GTMfund<\/a>, an early-stage venture firm made up of 350+ go-to-market executives from the fastest-growing companies.<\/em><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h2>GTM 195 Episode Transcript<\/h2>\n<p>00:00 \u2013 00:10<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>CPMs over the last 18 months have gone from like $20 on average to as high as like 800. We\u2019ve seen with some of our customers, which is insane.<\/p>\n<p>00:10 \u2013 00:14<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Keith Putnam Delaney, co-founder and CEO of primer.<\/p>\n<p>00:14 \u2013 00:37<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I really wanted Dev Tool, basically built on an agent platform to make producing integrations way faster. Nobody creates an account on Reddit or Meta with a work email. You get like a 2% 10% match rate. We get incredibly high, like 80% on meta, 50% on Google, like 70% on Reddit, manage rates for our customers. And then that kind of unlocks a lot of interesting possibilities.<\/p>\n<p>00:37 \u2013 00:41<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>There\u2019s a lot of talk about ads in Llms. What is your perspective on all this?<\/p>\n<p>00:41 \u2013 00:50<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Buzz perplexities had their ad program in beta. Obviously OpenAI just launched theirs. From my perspective, I\u2019m excited for it.<\/p>\n<p>00:50 \u2013 01:12<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>What other kind of tactical tips would you give somebody if they were thinking about running? Or they are running paid advertising?<\/p>\n<p>01:12 \u2013 01:14<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Keith, welcome to GTM now.<\/p>\n<p>01:14 \u2013 01:16<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Hey, Sophie. Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n<p>01:16 \u2013 01:42<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, it\u2019s great to have you here. We\u2019re going to cover everything paid, and there\u2019s a lot to cover. But let\u2019s start off with the high level structural changes, because we always say with AI, there\u2019s a lot changing in terms of the investment lens where value accrues with product being easier to build, that value shifts over distribution. We\u2019re seeing the same kind of structural changes happen to specific areas.<\/p>\n<p>01:42 \u2013 01:44<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>What\u2019s happening with paid?<\/p>\n<p>01:44 \u2013 02:12<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I think the the really interesting thing about paid is in the wake of all these incredible changes in AI, is that there\u2019s actually a limited number of channels to capture people\u2019s attention. Right? AI has not produced a new social network. It hasn\u2019t produced something that people are sort of scrolling through for content. What AI has instead done is it\u2019s sort of glutted the existing channels with more content.<\/p>\n<p>02:12 \u2013 02:40<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>So you have essentially a supply and demand problem you have and of demand and limited supply, and that\u2019s causing a crazy increase in costs on a lot of digital advertising channels. And yeah, I think it\u2019s one of the unsung stories of the AI or revolution we\u2019re going through.<\/p>\n<p>02:40 \u2013 02:45<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>And with these rising costs, how should people be thinking about their acquisition motions?<\/p>\n<p>02:45 \u2013 03:10<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. Well, what\u2019s really interesting, you know, if he again think about AI and go to market more broadly, it\u2019s also created a glut on outbound. And everybody is talking about the decrease in effectiveness on outbound these days. So it\u2019s sort of like all right what do you turn to? I think a lot of people are looking at community and kind of event field of field marketing and events again, which is cool.<\/p>\n<p>03:10 \u2013 03:39<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>And then on paid, I think a lot of people are left kind of scratching their heads a bit, which is too bad because they\u2019re definitely are opportunities. You know, Reddit is seeing a surge in B2B demand lately. We are seeing more and more brands interested in trying to get Metta to work for them. Some very brave B2B brands are exploring TikTok, so there\u2019s definitely an opportunity there.<\/p>\n<p>03:39 \u2013 03:47<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>It\u2019s just that LinkedIn and search have diminishing returns at the moment. It seems like for most of the data that we look at.<\/p>\n<p>03:47 \u2013 04:06<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, yeah, you, you nail on the head where a lot of people are scratching their heads and you named a few channels there. Can we actually go through each of the channels and break down? What has changed now with AI and what people should be thinking about with each channel? Like what\u2019s effective, what\u2019s not? Yeah. Where should people be spending their dollars?<\/p>\n<p>04:06 \u2013 04:31<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Totally. So with AI, let\u2019s let\u2019s talk search because it\u2019s always kind of like the bread and butter default channel that marketers go to because it\u2019s high intent. Right? Somebody searching for something, they want that thing. The AI overview is sort of killing search. Slowly but surely, especially unbranded search. AI answers are popping up the majority of time in something like Google and more and more Bing too.<\/p>\n<p>04:31 \u2013 04:55<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>So what are people doing? What\u2019s still working? They\u2019re investing the money in competitor keywords, right? So they\u2019re bidding on anybody and everybody. That\u2019s a brand name that might be related to them that\u2019s working. It\u2019s still actually proven to be quite effective. It may continue to work for a while, but it also will suffer from diminishing returns as everybody else starts doing it.<\/p>\n<p>04:55 \u2013 05:04<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>I have to say, yeah, I can\u2019t tell you. Every time I search for a brand, I\u2019m scrolling down six different ads before I actually get to the organic brand.<\/p>\n<p>05:04 \u2013 05:30<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>And it\u2019s really interesting. Google\u2019s like, no, we\u2019re not going to do like when people are searching for brands, we\u2019re not going to do AI answers because they need to still make money, right? To fund all those CPU costs. So that\u2019s that\u2019s search kind of in a nutshell on LinkedIn. Wow. I mean, LinkedIn is just like CPMs over the last 18 months have gone from like $20 on average to as high as, like 800.<\/p>\n<p>05:30 \u2013 05:59<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>We\u2019ve seen with some of our customers, which is insane. So a lot of people are looking for efficiencies there. They\u2019re still really cool kind of ad formats that LinkedIn\u2019s playing with, thought leadership probably being the one that\u2019s getting the most attention right now. Their CTV placements are actually still pretty effective from a the neat thing about CTV is you can\u2019t skip it, which is kind of fun.<\/p>\n<p>05:59 \u2013 06:39<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>So those are those are the kind of the two default channels, I would say for B2B marketers. I think one of the things that a lot of folks don\u2019t realize is that there is the opportunity and possibility of unlocking more traditionally B2C channels. I think Clay just rolled out their ads product. I think it\u2019s a really interesting sort of signal that that they see opportunity in helping users kind of stitch together, helping their customers stitch together, identity between kind of like the LinkedIn level and that, you know, B2C Instagram, you know, me at night sort of doom scrolling.<\/p>\n<p>06:39 \u2013 06:41<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>06:41 \u2013 06:42<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>All humans at the end of the day.<\/p>\n<p>06:42 \u2013 06:43<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Totally, totally.<\/p>\n<p>06:43 \u2013 06:51<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>In human behavior. Yeah. May look different B2B to be B2C, but truly it\u2019s just humans. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>06:51 \u2013 06:51<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>06:51 \u2013 07:01<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>No, I\u2019m asking all these questions about channels specific to pay because you are yourself an expert in the area. For anyone unfamiliar with primer. Can you give a little bit of context to what you\u2019re building?<\/p>\n<p>07:01 \u2013 07:23<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Sure. So my background wasn\u2019t always impede. I used to be more of a kind of a brand marketer, and then I got really intrigued by data and targeting because at the end of the day, marketing doesn\u2019t really work if you can\u2019t get it in front of the right audience. And what we\u2019ve built, essentially a primer is a targeting layer.<\/p>\n<p>07:23 \u2013 07:47<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>So one of the main problems with kind of trying to target people in meta or Google or TikTok or Reddit is they don\u2019t have those B2B sort of filters built in natively. Right? So most folks try to upload a list of work emails, right? Right. And because nobody creates an account on Reddit or meta with a work email, you get like a 2%, 10% match rate.<\/p>\n<p>07:47 \u2013 08:10<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>We can change that. And we do. We get incredibly high, like 80% on meta, 50% on Google, like 70% on Reddit, match rates for our customers. And then that kind of unlocks a lot of interesting possibilities, a lot of not only cheaper inventory, but still really effective channels. And then we\u2019re doing some cool things on the measurement front.<\/p>\n<p>08:10 \u2013 08:22<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>But yeah, I think what we\u2019re really excited about is nobody really owns the B2B paid acquisition space right now, and we see an opportunity to build something powerful there.<\/p>\n<p>08:22 \u2013 08:34<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>When definitely not across DDC channels like you mentioned, and being able to actually bring the identity of the B2B person over to those channels, that\u2019s a huge gap, a huge gap right now.<\/p>\n<p>08:34 \u2013 08:54<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Totally. But people are like I said, Clay is moving into the space. We\u2019re in the space. Yeah, I think people see that the economics of these sort of two default channels are really working, and they\u2019re looking for new opportunities. And where the money goes is where the startups will go.<\/p>\n<p>08:54 \u2013 09:19<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>And what does that actually do for any kind of measurement? Because I think that\u2019s a huge constraint for a lot of people that are, you know, behind the concept of, okay, we\u2019re humans, we spend time on all these different platforms with scrolling different various things at night. Yeah, but it\u2019s so hard to measure. I know it\u2019s so hard to measure, and especially because, you know, we might scroll something on Instagram tonight, but a lot of the time a demo, for example, might be booked on desktop in the daytime.<\/p>\n<p>09:19 \u2013 09:29<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>So you\u2019ve kind of got the channel fragmentation and expansion, whichever is more suitable there. And they\u2019ve also got it sounds like the device fragmentation too.<\/p>\n<p>09:29 \u2013 09:57<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. In the device fragmentation is sort of not something I think marketers give enough credit to. You know, even on LinkedIn, the majority of your engagement on LinkedIn is on mobile these days, not on desktop. So LinkedIn is the easiest to attribute because it\u2019s still you. Still people go on desktop, they\u2019re at work, they scroll through LinkedIn, they click on the ad, they go all the way through and they sign up, which is great ideal.<\/p>\n<p>09:57 \u2013 10:29<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I wish everybody did that, but they don\u2019t. So the the challenge and there is no easy answer. If somebody had nailed attribution I mean attribution is where so many startups have gone to die. So attribution is tricky. But I do think like it\u2019s just a process of triangulation ultimately. My friend Pranav over at Paranaque is doing some cool things on the incremental and media mix modeling side of things.<\/p>\n<p>10:29 \u2013 10:53<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I think that\u2019s where a lot of the future leads for the sophisticated paid teams and for earlier stage marketers. You really have to kind of not just look at first touch, last touch. You really have to sort of embrace causality like you have to do holdout groups. You have to even something simple like, hey, we turned up the dial on meta.<\/p>\n<p>10:53 \u2013 11:12<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>We saw a ton of leads come in in May. We turned it off in June. We saw, you know, a significant drop. That\u2019s that there\u2019s a strong correlation. There is, you know, let\u2019s. All right. Meta works for us. Let\u2019s keep investing. It doesn\u2019t tell you how much to invest, but at least it gives you signal.<\/p>\n<p>11:12 \u2013 11:16<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. Directional data is holdout groups the best way for people to do that?<\/p>\n<p>11:16 \u2013 11:43<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>100%. Yeah. Hold out groups are the statistically proven way to do it, right? You basically have a control population, doesn\u2019t see this ad campaign and expose population that does. You compare the conversion rates, all other marketing touchpoints being equal between the two groups. And you see if there\u2019s a statistical lift. And like, honestly, it\u2019s sort of a going back to the good old days of like Mad Men advertising.<\/p>\n<p>11:43 \u2013 12:05<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, that\u2019s what they that\u2019s what they do. You know it. Zoom is super famous for their they never did any digital advertising right. Only out of home and kind of sponsorships. And they would just compare markets. Yeah. Right. And they would look in Google Analytics and just compare Nashville versus Louisville, you know. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>12:05 \u2013 12:18<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>And a lot of companies are doing that now. And for out of home just as it\u2019s grown right. That is the best way. And it\u2019s funny we\u2019ve just come over complicated things with attribution when in reality it\u2019s more the directional side, like you said.<\/p>\n<p>12:18 \u2013 12:26<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Totally. Yeah. And it\u2019s just it\u2019s hard to build a model. Everybody wants a model that\u2019s perfect. Yeah, and it just doesn\u2019t exist.<\/p>\n<p>12:26 \u2013 12:44<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yes. Yeah, well, you mentioned something that\u2019s super important. Statistical significance. Even if you\u2019re doing holdout groups, what kind of size of company does this make sense to actually scale towards? To have that kind of end that you are hitting statistical significance? Yeah. Who is this for? If I\u2019m kind of listening to this.<\/p>\n<p>12:44 \u2013 13:08<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, totally. I mean, for the marketer who\u2019s trying to, you know, run a campaign to 500 companies or people, it\u2019s not going to be for you, but you can do it with relatively small sample sizes these days, like even a, you know, a 5000 person audience. Given enough time, you can get to stat sig. Yeah, that\u2019s.<\/p>\n<p>13:08 \u2013 13:30<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, pretty doable for a lot of companies. Totally. And what about channel? Let\u2019s say you said the starting place is 5000 people. What about a channel starting place. If you\u2019re, you know, advising any kind of companies and marketers building, is there a channel that they should be starting with, or is that perhaps new to each company?<\/p>\n<p>13:30 \u2013 14:00<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I still think the easiest place to test is LinkedIn. You know, just because they\u2019ve got the filters built into their products. Right? You can define your ideal customers right there and try to go after them. So it\u2019s definitely the easiest place to test. One of the things that I\u2019m I\u2019m really hoping that we\u2019ll, we\u2019ll get into as a, as a company in the next year or so is the barrier to entry to testing.<\/p>\n<p>14:00 \u2013 14:28<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Advertising is just very high, right. Because the, the cost of experimentation is really high. Yeah, that\u2019s one of the things I think about a lot is if I was a kind of solo founder or seed stage startup, how could I? How could I be comfortable making this investment and expecting that it won\u2019t just be, you know, it won\u2019t just be lighting $20,000 on fire, which to me might be a lot of money at that at that stage for sure.<\/p>\n<p>14:28 \u2013 14:33<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>It\u2019s something that I think we we\u2019re going to have some cool features around at some point.<\/p>\n<p>14:33 \u2013 14:53<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Oh very cool. We\u2019ll have to revisit this when it comes out. Super exciting. But you\u2019re right, it is a hard barrier, kind of higher barrier to entry. And totally maybe just as we talked about at the beginning, certain areas become a little bit more commoditized, if you will. That is one area that kind of retains that barrier to entry is paid.<\/p>\n<p>14:53 \u2013 15:09<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. So when we think about at the macro level, know where those areas and gaps and opportunities and you call that a few different channels including community including page like where does page sit in terms of kind of where people are going. Are you seeing an uptick or are you seeing people pull spend.<\/p>\n<p>15:09 \u2013 15:10<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Out, know.<\/p>\n<p>15:10 \u2013 15:10<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>What\u2019s happening?<\/p>\n<p>15:10 \u2013 15:36<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I think we\u2019re seeing people double down on paid, just in part because outbound is I mean, paid is the is the top channel for for most companies. It takes a lot of for and I should say for most marketing teams and kind of go to market teams, you know products obviously you have I mean there\u2019s there\u2019s product growth loops that are really powerful.<\/p>\n<p>15:36 \u2013 16:08<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>But I think, you know, paid is basically outside of product growth loops. The the biggest area of investment and is outbound really decreases in effectiveness. People are turning money into pouring more money into paid because they can still make the ROI pencil, even though it is getting more expensive. Yeah. And what I think as a result, though, of that increase in cost, is they\u2019re turning to the channels where it\u2019s cheaper to advertise and where they can still get that ROI.<\/p>\n<p>16:09 \u2013 16:10<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Which are the Reddit\u2019s. Like you.<\/p>\n<p>16:10 \u2013 16:32<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Said, the Reddit\u2019s the meta, you know, the Instagram. So the places where people like were there and it\u2019s sort of kind of an obvious thing, but it\u2019s like people that\u2019s where people are spending their time. You should be where they are to begin with. Even if, even if LinkedIn wasn\u2019t so expensive, you should probably still be on Instagram because that\u2019s where your audience hangs out.<\/p>\n<p>16:32 \u2013 16:33<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, definitely.<\/p>\n<p>16:33 \u2013 16:45<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>No, it makes sense. Are you seeing a certain kind of split between channels that people diversify across, or is that quite variable from company? Just as you know, marketers are thinking about their channel diversification.<\/p>\n<p>16:45 \u2013 17:13<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, I think it\u2019s somewhat persona dependent. Yeah. So Reddit right isn\u2019t for everyone. You know, we\u2019ve seen match rates on Reddit as high as 70%, 80% for IT and engineers and then 4% for legal or procurement. Right. Because it\u2019s a smaller community and not everybody\u2019s on their, I think, the same. Like it\u2019s actually really interesting to think about the channels where people aren\u2019t on LinkedIn.<\/p>\n<p>17:13 \u2013 17:13<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>You know.<\/p>\n<p>17:14 \u2013 17:14<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>100.<\/p>\n<p>17:14 \u2013 17:46<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Percent like doctors, not on LinkedIn. Educate people in education, not on LinkedIn. So those are some of the things that I think are actually kind of quite interesting is it really varies by persona, but the majority, for better or for worse. And I think it\u2019s for worse. The place where we see people continuing to dial up investment is on search, and I just think it\u2019s kind of foolish, like I really do.<\/p>\n<p>17:46 \u2013 18:08<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I don\u2019t think I they, they\u2019re like, oh, well, we\u2019re paying $8,000 for it, you know, for a good for an opportunity, you know, and it\u2019s like we can still afford that. But it\u2019s like, but is that the right question to be asking yourself? Like, is there not something much better, cheaper, higher volume way to get that. Yeah yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>18:08 \u2013 18:13<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Why are people spending more and doubling down than if it\u2019s only getting more expensive?<\/p>\n<p>18:13 \u2013 18:32<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s a great question. Fear. I think I\u2019m trying something new. The cost of falling on your face, you know. Yeah. You know, like, again, that lighting money on fire. It\u2019s hard to know. Paid typically takes a fair amount of experimentation to get right.<\/p>\n<p>18:32 \u2013 18:57<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I\u2019ll just. I\u2019ll just say where I sort of teased it earlier, but I just say, like, what I think is hugely missing in in paid is benchmark data, right? It\u2019s like understand like no. Why like it boggles my mind that there isn\u2019t a company out there that doesn\u2019t aggregate and anonymize segment by persona and then say, okay, here\u2019s what\u2019s working.<\/p>\n<p>18:57 \u2013 19:20<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>If you\u2019re going after cybersecurity companies, here\u2019s what you know, here\u2019s what\u2019s working. If you\u2019re going after HR and sort of helping like provide that data to help steer. Now, does it lead to like a reversion to the mean? Yes. But like and will the best marketers always kind of still take a first principles approach. But I think it de-risk a lot of the the investment.<\/p>\n<p>19:20 \u2013 19:29<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>If you can learn from your peers in a way that\u2019s a that\u2019s not compromising, I guess is the right word. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>19:29 \u2013 19:47<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>You know, be hugely beneficial. And there\u2019s benchmarks for so many things. So what\u2019s the barrier to creating paid benchmarks? I immediately what pops in my head is the fragmentation we\u2019ve been talking about. And people not actually having the data around what is effective because of the B2B involvement.<\/p>\n<p>19:47 \u2013 20:07<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>If we keep growing, we\u2019ll have the now we\u2019re we\u2019re starting to produce the data. Yeah. Yeah. We\u2019re we\u2019re working on kind of our first set of those. We\u2019re just kicking off some fun data science around that. We\u2019ve finally kind of hit the scale around certain personas where we can we can produce that, and we want to build that into the product.<\/p>\n<p>20:07 \u2013 20:23<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>And that is what I think helps that maybe the marketer who\u2019s spending $1 million a month on Google actually decide to put some of that money into meta, maybe that founder who\u2019s trying out marketing for the first time to like, you know, press the on button, I guess.<\/p>\n<p>20:23 \u2013 20:42<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. Yeah, definitely, I love it. Well, we\u2019re excited to see that. And then for companies that you\u2019re working with as you\u2019re growing and scaling what we talked about generally, what size of company or stage of company makes sense to do paid advertising? What stage of company does it make sense for them to look at primer?<\/p>\n<p>20:42 \u2013 21:04<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Typically we currently right. I think it\u2019s going to change. But currently we serve companies with that are already investing about $10,000 a month on average in ad spend. It\u2019s sort of that\u2019s sort of the litmus test we found for like, all right, we\u2019ve got a motion. It\u2019s working. How do we and it\u2019s enough where we can make it more efficient, basically.<\/p>\n<p>21:05 \u2013 21:16<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I think at that point what we found is anybody spending under that is going to turn it off, turn it back on, turn it off, turn it back on. And as a software business, we don\u2019t like that.<\/p>\n<p>21:16 \u2013 21:20<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>So it\u2019s certainly not ideal. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>21:20 \u2013 21:25<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>So that\u2019s kind of what. Yeah. That\u2019s a short answer to your question or maybe a long answer.<\/p>\n<p>21:25 \u2013 21:27<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>People that have always on paid systems that scale.<\/p>\n<p>21:28 \u2013 21:33<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Exactly. Cool. Yeah. Typically around 150 to 100 employees, as well as kind of what we find.<\/p>\n<p>21:33 \u2013 21:55<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, that\u2019s a really helpful benchmark. And Keith, you know, a lot of people think about paid as just direct pipeline generation. But there\u2019s so many other outcomes that come from anything that gives you data from the customer. Yeah. How do you think about the actual utility of like, how should people be thinking about their programs and what quantitative and qualitative information that they\u2019re gathering?<\/p>\n<p>21:55 \u2013 22:17<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, I think one of the coolest things about paid is that if you think about it, right, it\u2019s it\u2019s the thing that\u2019s furthest up your funnel, right? Impressions are the thing that\u2019s furthest up your funnel. So if you\u2019re if you feel confident you\u2019re reaching your ideal customers, you can get a lot of eyeballs on a lot of messages in a really short time frame.<\/p>\n<p>22:18 \u2013 22:44<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>So it\u2019s incredibly powerful, not just obviously like message testing, not just to drive those, you know, form submits and leads, but message testing that can help inform your strategy more generally, like what your website should should say. You can really iterate with messaging at a much faster pace than you can anywhere else, and that is one of the huge benefits that obviously AI unlocks as well.<\/p>\n<p>22:44 \u2013 23:03<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, it sounds like the the actual learning loop itself from it. Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. And what other kind of tactical tips would you give somebody if they were thinking about running? Or they are running paid advertising and they\u2019re trying to kind of get more juice from the squeeze, like, what are the kind of the tried and true tips that you have?<\/p>\n<p>23:03 \u2013 23:09<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Oh, tips.<\/p>\n<p>23:09 \u2013 23:13<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s a great question. Like, I\u2019m trying to think, God, I could go in so many different directions.<\/p>\n<p>23:13 \u2013 23:17<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>We can go in all of them. So. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>23:17 \u2013 23:42<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Well, okay, I\u2019ll talk about some like, some things that I believe to be true. More like philosophically you should. The hardest thing for a competitor to copy is you\u2019re targeting. They can copy everything else. They can figure out what channels you\u2019re on. They can figure out your creative. They can figure out your messaging. All of that is is is easy for them to to look up and imitate.<\/p>\n<p>23:42 \u2013 24:01<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>You can\u2019t figure out your targeting. So that can be a unique competitive advantage. Brandon Cammy, the former head of growth at Rippling Athena. I used to talk about that all the time. The second thing is go where your competitors aren\u2019t. I think.<\/p>\n<p>24:01 \u2013 24:01<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>It\u2019s.<\/p>\n<p>24:01 \u2013 24:26<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Always channel wise. I always think that\u2019s that\u2019s really helpful is, you know, or go where the market generally is. It sort of take like that first principles approach. I think it\u2019s like fun when you know out of home I feel like is having a resurgence. Yeah. Because like it was like I think I mean, these these channels or these tactics are cyclical, right.<\/p>\n<p>24:26 \u2013 24:50<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Everybody rushes in to do field marketing. That\u2019s going to decrease in effectiveness. So what\u2019s the thing they\u2019re not doing right now. The other the other tip I have is kind of more philosophically I guess it\u2019ll be my third point is I think these days buying credibility is a huge it has to be a huge piece of your marketing strategy.<\/p>\n<p>24:50 \u2013 25:14<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>What I mean by that is you look at what\u2019s happened in B2C marketing. Influencer is and it\u2019s already happening in B2B. But I really do think that that we\u2019re only at the beginning of what that really looks like. And one of the fastest ways you can grow is buying that credibility from people who already have the audience, as opposed to trying to create it yourself.<\/p>\n<p>25:14 \u2013 25:28<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>And I think also because of some trends in B2C, people don\u2019t seem to really want to hear from brands very much these days. They want to hear from trusted people. Yeah, that they feel connection to.<\/p>\n<p>25:28 \u2013 25:41<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>What influence does that last point? And those are all fantastic points. What influence does that last point have on companies approaches to more programmatic platform page spend? Like you\u2019re talking about meta. We\u2019re talking about LinkedIn.<\/p>\n<p>25:41 \u2013 25:42<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, totally.<\/p>\n<p>25:42 \u2013 25:51<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>When we talk about the creator space. But you\u2019re right. I think it\u2019s like the early days of to be yeah. What does that actually do to somebody sitting in a seat and be like, where do I allocate my money?<\/p>\n<p>25:51 \u2013 26:13<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Okay, so there\u2019s vehicles for accelerating that with paid like those those tools exist for example on meta. This has happened for a long time where if you get an influencer can share their basically give you access to their brand, and then you can promote their content, you can basically boost their their content.<\/p>\n<p>26:13 \u2013 26:14<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Which you can do.<\/p>\n<p>26:14 \u2013 26:40<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>On like dollars and you can do that only. And then LinkedIn came out with that, right? 6 to 12 months ago. And I don\u2019t I honestly don\u2019t don\u2019t see many brands doing that yet. And that promoted thought leadership. That\u2019s not from someone within your own company. That\u2019s from someone outside your company. I think that that is probably that\u2019s that\u2019s a hugely undervalued tactic.<\/p>\n<p>26:40 \u2013 26:41<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>26:41 \u2013 26:56<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>I like it, I like it. That\u2019s interesting about meta too, because I know a lot of marketers are working that on the LinkedIn side or wanting to do more of that on the LinkedIn side, but haven\u2019t, you know, doubled down enough on LinkedIn itself if that\u2019s where they want to start, but certainly haven\u2019t cross the chasm? Namita.<\/p>\n<p>26:56 \u2013 27:06<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>No, and I don\u2019t think like I don\u2019t think many BB marketers are doing it on meta at all. I do think that\u2019s just a big opportunity though. Yeah, yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>27:06 \u2013 27:18<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>So one thing you mentioned, Keith, was the actual targeting is something that your competitors can\u2019t copy. So if we talk about defense ability overall and paid, what happens to the creative side.<\/p>\n<p>27:18 \u2013 27:24<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Man. Well I think a lot of creative.<\/p>\n<p>27:24 \u2013 27:51<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>LinkedIn is just so bad. But at this like they don\u2019t have nearly any of the tools that that meta meta is probably the best Google\u2019s second best LinkedIn and read out of the worst on Reddit though I\u2019ll actually give like. Quick aside, the key for Reddit is just making your making your ad content appear native, which is very which is actually easy to do if you\u2019re thoughtful about it.<\/p>\n<p>27:51 \u2013 28:11<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I think the the where where ad content on Reddit fails is when it just it\u2019s like you\u2019re in the middle of a subreddit and it\u2019s just like that, you know, people just glaze over it. But if it looks like it\u2019s actually a thoughtful post, people will engage with it. Shout out to Jason Larson at Confluent for kind of that playbook.<\/p>\n<p>28:11 \u2013 28:37<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>In general, though, I think what\u2019s happening with creative is you\u2019re on like on meta and Google is the the dynamic optimization is huge. So you just basically have to feed the algorithm enough variance and enough mix of different formats and messages. And it will it will end up picking the winner. And it\u2019s getting better and better at that.<\/p>\n<p>28:37 \u2013 28:40<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, LinkedIn\u2019s got a long way to go though.<\/p>\n<p>28:40 \u2013 28:47<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>So would that be almost that kind of moat in a way is your variant?<\/p>\n<p>28:47 \u2013 29:14<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. I mean, your your ability to iterate and produce variants, particularly video is really, really important that that is a moat or it\u2019s something that it\u2019s a it\u2019s a muscle. I would say that is important to develop. And there\u2019s lots of cool tools out there to help with this. Like Opus Pro. You know, something I use a lot?<\/p>\n<p>29:14 \u2013 29:36<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Riverside. And yeah, there\u2019s tons, there\u2019s tons cap cut, all of it. And that\u2019s only going to get better and better and better with AI. Yeah, and easier and easier and easier the. The key is that that that can be a very big competitive advantage and then. Yeah. And then targeting. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>29:36 \u2013 29:52<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>How do you feel about AI videos. You know you work with so many different companies that are iterating on all their different video variations. What\u2019s happening there. Have any like really done into pure AI variations?<\/p>\n<p>29:52 \u2013 30:17<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I haven\u2019t seen much of it yet. Okay. Yeah, I really haven\u2019t. Yeah, I don\u2019t know. I feel like it has to happen at some point and I see a lot more like kind of AI edited, like, you know, AI b roll mixed in. Yeah. But I haven\u2019t really seen a ton of, like, purely AI output content.<\/p>\n<p>30:18 \u2013 30:18<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>30:18 \u2013 30:34<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>I\u2019m curious what that does for paid both on the video and the image side, just as we see a flood and maybe a flood of different variants that algorithms can run and test, if that will take away, maybe the targeting does remain that final mode.<\/p>\n<p>30:34 \u2013 30:58<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Could be, it could be. And that being said, I mean, I do think the the algorithms are also trying to take away aspects of targeting, but it is still something you have some power over in addition to the messaging. The last thing I\u2019ll say is like, if you\u2019re not pushing conversion data back into these platforms, you\u2019re really in trouble to get success.<\/p>\n<p>30:58 \u2013 30:59<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Tell us more about that.<\/p>\n<p>30:59 \u2013 31:21<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Well, all right. So if the if ultimately if all these ad platforms are basically saying trust the algorithm, trust the algorithm, trust the algorithm, what is the algorithm going to optimize for. It\u2019s going to optimize for whatever signal you feed it. Right. So it\u2019s going to say all right you want form submits. Great. I don\u2019t care how good those form submits are though.<\/p>\n<p>31:21 \u2013 31:42<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Right. Because I\u2019m just the algorithm I want to I want to serve your eyes as much as possible. So you have to feed it basically CRM conversion data back into the ad platform in order to say, hey, no, no, no, no, no, you have to optimize for this, this thing that\u2019s actually valuable to me, not the junk. And the Andromeda algorithm is actually getting.<\/p>\n<p>31:42 \u2013 32:05<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>The meta algorithm is getting better and better and better at that. At a crazy clip. For as much as meta seems to be losing in some spaces, it\u2019s still really fucking good at. Yeah, at there, you know, and I think a lot of people, a lot of B2B marketers really dip their toe into meta test. It doesn\u2019t work.<\/p>\n<p>32:05 \u2013 32:09<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Then they come back. But like if you haven\u2019t tested it in a while, it\u2019s worth it. I try.<\/p>\n<p>32:09 \u2013 32:27<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. And that\u2019s one thing I want to double down on because you mentioned earlier, it\u2019s really hard to get it right initially. It takes time. So for companies, marketers, founders that are trying to scale to new channels, like what should they expect? What kind of like time horizon does it take to actually get that right and to click?<\/p>\n<p>32:27 \u2013 32:30<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>And how much money usually does it take?<\/p>\n<p>32:30 \u2013 32:35<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>And I actually don\u2019t know if I have a great answer to that question.<\/p>\n<p>32:35 \u2013 32:37<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Can also be super variant.<\/p>\n<p>32:37 \u2013 33:18<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, that\u2019s what I mean. It can really, really it can be really, you know, kind of again, like target market dependent. I do think that there\u2019s like probably a floor of investment that you have to make. And then probably more than anything, it\u2019s just coming in with good test design, you know, proper AB tests, knowing what metric you\u2019re trying to optimize for and then giving yourself actually not not you giving yourself, but you getting maybe enough rope to not hang yourself to to basically prove that you to run enough experiments.<\/p>\n<p>33:18 \u2013 33:19<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>33:20 \u2013 33:31<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Super helpful advice. What about I have to ask you, you\u2019re remiss if I didn\u2019t. There\u2019s a lot of talk about ads in LMS. What is your perspective on all this?<\/p>\n<p>33:31 \u2013 34:05<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Does TBD right? I mean, perplexities had their their kind of ad program in beta. Obviously OpenAI just launched theirs. It\u2019s I don\u2019t know from my perspective, I\u2019m excited for it. But that\u2019s because I, this is what I do. I mean, if you think about how much money Google has made off of this for so long, I mean, it\u2019s going to it\u2019s going to be really interesting to watch it unfold.<\/p>\n<p>34:05 \u2013 34:14<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>And I\u2019m really interested in in how like actually what it\u2019s going to look like. I haven\u2019t had the opportunity to test it yet.<\/p>\n<p>34:14 \u2013 34:21<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>So when do you think ads will be live in chat to you had to give a guess.<\/p>\n<p>34:21 \u2013 34:27<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>We should get Tommy Finke in here from OpenAI.<\/p>\n<p>34:27 \u2013 34:28<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>It\u2019s a call a friend question.<\/p>\n<p>34:28 \u2013 34:41<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s right. Text them right now. I don\u2019t know, I would guess. I mean, every so much over there seems up in the air at the moment, but in the next six months seems reasonable. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>34:42 \u2013 34:42<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s very soon.<\/p>\n<p>34:43 \u2013 34:48<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. So soon they got to make some money if they want to oppo, you know, monetize those free users.<\/p>\n<p>34:48 \u2013 34:52<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>100%. And I mean I said ChatGPT but it goes for every LM.<\/p>\n<p>34:52 \u2013 35:03<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. What one platform I haven\u2019t mentioned is X, which is just excuse my language dog shit from an advertising kind of infrastructure standpoint.<\/p>\n<p>35:03 \u2013 35:05<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>We need that asterisk donate on it.<\/p>\n<p>35:05 \u2013 35:18<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>So. Yeah. But yeah but like like, you know, ads and grok and all of that I think yeah, I think that\u2019s a natural extension if they can figure that out. Yeah I know they brought on a new CEO to help with the monetization. So we\u2019ll see.<\/p>\n<p>35:18 \u2013 35:27<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>It will be very interesting to see. Well, we\u2019ll revisit that once we\u2019ve got ads and llms and access potentially running more paid opportunities.<\/p>\n<p>35:27 \u2013 35:27<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Definitely.<\/p>\n<p>35:27 \u2013 35:53<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Well, great. We\u2019ve talked a lot about paid advertising itself. But you know, what we haven\u2019t yet covered is yourself as a founder. Love to hear. You know, now you\u2019re over six years into building and you\u2019ve got incredible operating experience also. Yeah. If you look back in time would have been some of, you know, the biggest lessons that you wish somebody had told you earlier in your founder journey that you would then pass along to.<\/p>\n<p>35:53 \u2013 35:53<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I.<\/p>\n<p>35:53 \u2013 35:54<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Think, someone.<\/p>\n<p>35:54 \u2013 36:16<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Else, I think everybody did tell me that\u2019s the problem. I just didn\u2019t listen. No. I mean, I joke that this is the most expensive MBA anybody\u2019s ever paid for. Yeah. Thank you. To my investors, the GTA fund. Pleasure. Yeah. I mean, it\u2019s been.<\/p>\n<p>36:16 \u2013 36:37<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>There\u2019s so many, you know, statements about being a founder. You know, one of the ones I love a lot is, you know, failure is a symptom of iteration, right? We have failed so many times. We launched a product, got great traction, you know, pivoted. It got great, you know, went down to nothing to like, make it an, you know, subscription product.<\/p>\n<p>36:37 \u2013 37:03<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Got it back up, you know, went down to nothing and then went into the dark for nine months and rebuilt and pivoted again. And it that that many times at bat it takes that you know that grit that people talk about that that belief that like irrational belief that this thing needs to exist, which, you know, paid advertising, not everybody would argue needs to exist.<\/p>\n<p>37:04 \u2013 37:15<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>But but, I mean, it kind of does it kind of, if you like. It\u2019s kind of one of the few things that actually has to exist, because if you have these platforms that have advertising potential, like you need to be winning on them, you need to.<\/p>\n<p>37:15 \u2013 37:39<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yes, yes. Like, I know I meant more like, you know, existential, but but so it\u2019s like a weird thing to feel deep, so deeply passionate about. Like this, this, this is something I geek out about, but I yeah, I it\u2019s just the everybody talks about the roller, all those things, all the cliches are absolutely true. But you don\u2019t really realize they are until you go through it.<\/p>\n<p>37:39 \u2013 37:45<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. I guess toward yourself at like that hardest nine month period.<\/p>\n<p>37:45 \u2013 38:17<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Not to take it out on my partner. Yeah, that was really important. It took me a long time to realize that I was the one responsible for my own happiness. I couldn\u2019t seek affirmation or sort of like, you know, sympathy from somebody where it was just unfair to ask it from them. Right. Like I should be able to give that to myself was kind of like, that was a big unlock that helped me outside of work, have a healthier relationship with my work.<\/p>\n<p>38:17 \u2013 38:39<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>That was big. It\u2019s okay to have panic attacks. It\u2019s normal. Get like, talk to people, get help. That\u2019s really important. Yeah, I think and that\u2019s one of the things that\u2019s changed a lot in Silicon Valley in the last, you know, 5 to 10 years is like the embrace of mental health with for founders. I think that\u2019s really cool.<\/p>\n<p>38:39 \u2013 39:02<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>And then yeah, just just recognize those moments where it can be just like a simple fork in the road. You could say, all right, I\u2019m done. What does that mean for me? Or I want to keep going. What does that mean for me? And just kind of analyze those two options and pick the one. That\u2019s right. I decided to keep going.<\/p>\n<p>39:02 \u2013 39:24<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>And for better or for worse, seemingly for better. But there\u2019s costs to keeping going to that. You just have to pay in terms of your relationships, your the opportunity cost potentially to your career. If because there is still no guarantee that even if you do decide to keep going, that it\u2019s going to work out. Right? Right.<\/p>\n<p>39:24 \u2013 39:52<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>So yeah, a lot of things to weigh, but you\u2019re absolutely right. It\u2019s a very kind of beautiful time to see people being so much more open about their mental health for founders and just for, for all humanity is it\u2019s a cool evolution that we\u2019re seeing and we\u2019re continuing to see. And as you kind of gone along the founder journey, have there been any particular books or things that you\u2019ve read that have really helped you in whatever, whatever capacity you found?<\/p>\n<p>39:52 \u2013 39:57<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>You know, the books that have helped me the most? If I\u2019m be totally honest.<\/p>\n<p>39:57 \u2013 39:59<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>100%.<\/p>\n<p>39:59 \u2013 40:20<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>It\u2019s kind of like escapism. Like for me, at the end of the day, it\u2019s funny, I like, I know I should do more business reading, but yeah, but I just like at some point I just need to unplug and fall into a different world. So I\u2019m like a big sci fi fantasy nerd. I love it. That\u2019s one thing, but that\u2019s kind of a BS answer.<\/p>\n<p>40:20 \u2013 40:41<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>No, it\u2019s not a sensor at all. Actually, I read really recently something that I was talking about the the cost of actually not reading fiction anymore, just as people are consuming more short form videos and reading just pure business books. Those are the imagination and what that does for your actual creativity, for marketing, for the ad creative, for actually thinking through these campaigns.<\/p>\n<p>40:41 \u2013 40:52<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Because suddenly you\u2019re served the experience visually, instead of reading the words and actually envisioning what that sci fi world looks like to yourself so could actually have downstream effects.<\/p>\n<p>40:52 \u2013 40:54<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>You\u2019re making me feel good about it. Yeah, right.<\/p>\n<p>40:54 \u2013 40:56<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Thank you. You\u2019re saying. Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>40:56 \u2013 40:56<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>There\u2019s love.<\/p>\n<p>40:56 \u2013 41:06<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>That there\u2019s downfalls to all these or little trade offs to all the evolutions and things that we are doing. Totally.<\/p>\n<p>41:06 \u2013 41:33<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>I will say though, on more of the coming back to the mental health said, I think Untethered Soul was really a amazing unlock for me to kind of, you know, let go. Yeah. Anyway, mindful on the mindfulness journey I\u2019m still very much on, but that has helped enormously. I mean, I could, I could rattle off business books, but I actually think that those if I\u2019m being like, really genuine, those are my two answers.<\/p>\n<p>41:33 \u2013 41:58<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s the only answer it would take is the genuine one. So those are fantastic answers. I love it. And yeah. Okay. Yeah, more of the personal AI side. But of course as you\u2019re building, you\u2019ve implemented some really innovative AI solutions and your personal using it and your team is using it. I\u2019m curious if there\u2019s been any specific use cases that you use other than your product, of course, on the media side.<\/p>\n<p>41:58 \u2013 42:06<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>But for yourself, company building that you know are less obvious but have been really helpful in your journey.<\/p>\n<p>42:06 \u2013 42:26<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, I mean, I\u2019m sort of waiting for someone to create. I really want a dev tool that\u2019s, you know, basically built on a platform to make producing integrations way faster, something that could, for example, look at your kind of like a.<\/p>\n<p>42:26 \u2013 42:55<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>A version of cloud code or cursor that is more specific. It looks at your code base, understands how your frameworks for producing integrations, goes off, looks at API documentation, and churns out like a v1 of an integration, and then helps you with the infrastructure support around that too. I think that would be fucking awesome because integrations are such a bottleneck for so many, so many companies, and you don\u2019t want to wait.<\/p>\n<p>42:55 \u2013 42:58<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>They\u2019re somewhat commoditized, but they take effort to build.<\/p>\n<p>42:58 \u2013 43:00<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>43:00 \u2013 43:00<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s.<\/p>\n<p>43:01 \u2013 43:08<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>They\u2019re also expected if you don\u2019t have an integration. It\u2019s actually a huge, huge kind of red flag in the deal process.<\/p>\n<p>43:08 \u2013 43:16<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Totally, totally. And it\u2019s like ten years ago you could get people to pay for them, right? Like kind of a premium firm now it\u2019s like, no way. Like I\u2019m just going to go to your competitor that has them.<\/p>\n<p>43:16 \u2013 43:18<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, exactly. It\u2019s a non-negotiable.<\/p>\n<p>43:18 \u2013 43:29<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. It\u2019s like the let\u2019s see expression, the Big Mac, the French fries on the apple pie like you don\u2019t. You don\u2019t pay like nobody\u2019s buying a Happy Meal for the apple pie, right? Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>43:29 \u2013 43:32<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>No, no. Certainly not.<\/p>\n<p>43:32 \u2013 43:53<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>And then maybe more on the personal front. And it\u2019s just because I\u2019m dealing with this all the time, it would actually be a terrible business because it would have no recurring revenue. Yeah, but, like, I would love I\u2019m going through a home remodel, and I would just love if there was some like, AI platform to help with with all of that, because the project management is like, I feel like I\u2019ve got a whole nother full time job on the side.<\/p>\n<p>43:53 \u2013 43:55<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Probably do. That sounds like a real task.<\/p>\n<p>43:55 \u2013 44:04<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, it just sucks because, like, I would, I would happily pay for it. But as soon as the project\u2019s over, you know, I churn out so terrible business, but would be real cool.<\/p>\n<p>44:04 \u2013 44:19<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s awesome. Well, Keith, this has been amazing. If you had to leave listeners with one piece of advice, you\u2019ve shared a ton of really valuable advice. But overall advice, there are some kind of quota like motto that you kind of live by through years of experience.<\/p>\n<p>44:19 \u2013 44:47<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Oh. Another deep question. I don\u2019t know. I think what I said I said before failures, side effect of iteration. I think that\u2019s an eel and musk quote. That is something that I it\u2019s kind of like I reassures me about the choices I make. It\u2019s like, you know, you don\u2019t you don\u2019t kind of get to that best outcome unless you unless you fail, unless you try.<\/p>\n<p>44:47 \u2013 44:54<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>So that\u2019s something that kind of makes me feel okay when I make the dumb move that I do from time to time, as we all.<\/p>\n<p>44:54 \u2013 44:55<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Do, because they\u2019re not dumb. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>44:56 \u2013 44:56<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, exactly.<\/p>\n<p>44:57 \u2013 45:14<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. I always think of it. It\u2019s the same thing, just in different wording. But failure is a data point. It\u2019s like if you don\u2019t have data, you\u2019re actually in the worst possible position that you could be, and you\u2019ll have data on the success front and the failure front totally. If it\u2019s not statistically significant, how do you iterate? Just like the paid side?<\/p>\n<p>45:14 \u2013 45:14<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Truly.<\/p>\n<p>45:14 \u2013 45:31<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Well, and it\u2019s a weird sort of motto to to take into parenting. Kind of like it\u2019s a weird way to phrase it in parenting, but I do think about that a lot with my kids. It\u2019s like, you got you got to let them fail. You got to let them try something and have it not work out. Yeah, that\u2019s my, I guess, nugget of wisdom.<\/p>\n<p>45:31 \u2013 45:36<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:\u00a0<\/strong>Very, very helpful. Keith, this has been wonderful. Thank you. I really appreciate the conversation. And Tom.<\/p>\n<p>45:36 \u2013 45:37<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keith Putnam-Delaney:\u00a0<\/strong>Thanks, Sophie.<\/p>\n<p>The post <a href=\"https:\/\/gtmnow.com\/gtm-195-b2b-paid-advertising-strategy-keith-putnam-delaney-primer\/\">How to Win at Paid Advertising in the AI Era | Keith Putnam-Delaney, Primer CEO<\/a> appeared first on <a href=\"https:\/\/gtmnow.com\">GTMnow<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Listen on YouTube \/\/ Apple \/\/ Spotify Who we sat down with Paid advertising is changing in the AI era. Keith Putnam-Delaney\u00a0(Co-Founder &amp; CEO of\u00a0Primer) joins GTMnow to break down the B2B paid squeeze, the B2C-for-B2B unlock, and his 3 contrarian rules for paid in 2026. He has the data on what\u2019s actually working, and [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":287,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[15],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2713"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2713"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2713\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2714,"href":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2713\/revisions\/2714"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/287"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2713"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2713"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/gogetmuscle.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2713"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}